[Steelart99]

I have a 2007 Jetta with 185K miles that was running fine. Shut off the engine for about 10 minutes and then restarted. Engine light came on and runs a bit rough especially at low rpm or initial acceleration. Car runs okay at higher rpm although I can detect some low level vibration. Drove for 50+ miles with usual acceleration etc. After engine cooled (and codes reset), the engine starts with minimal vibration, but when I put it into gear and move a few feet, the engine light comes back on.

Detected codes P0016, P0300, P0301 - P0305. What does this combination seem to indicate if they all showed up at the same time???

What sequence of actions can I take to work through possible issues?

Thanks

 

[Skimmer0220]

I’m guessing by the codes you have you have a 2.5, sounds like the crankshaft position sensor is bad, I would start by replacing that


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[Steelart99]

I’m guessing by the codes you have you have a 2.5, sounds like the crankshaft position sensor is bad, I would start by replacing that


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Thanks, I can get one of those pretty quickly. I'll post what I find out. I'd LOVE it if that was the issue

 

[Steelart99]

I’m guessing by the codes you have you have a 2.5, sounds like the crankshaft position sensor is bad, I would start by replacing that


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Yep, a 2007 Jetta 2.5L (BCG).
Detected codes P0016, P0300, P0301 - P0305. Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation, Random Misfire Detected, Cylinders 1-5 Misfire detected.

With all that happening at one time I figured it was likely the Camshaft or Crankshaft sensors or a timing chain jump. But then with the car seeming to run fine at anything over idle I'd hoped it wasn't the timing chain. I was looking to the knowledge on this forum to help me find a diagnosis path. Thanks.

 

[Steelart99]

Well, I've replaced the crankshaft sensor; no change.

Then I found that I was very low on oil (no dash light indicator), so I just changed the oil/oil filter; no change in error codes. It appears that i was down to under 3 liters of oil when the capacity is 6 liters.

I may change the cam shaft sensor too, before starting to pursue a timing chain replacement.

 

[Skimmer0220]

Did you clear the codes before starting it?


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[Steelart99]

Did you clear the codes before starting it?


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Yes, I'd cleared the codes before restarting the engine ... same misfires occuring.

I think I may have had a cascading failure. I believe my vacuum pump was leaking oil (oil 'mess' on top of tranny), then my oil level idiot light did not come on, then my oil level dropped to half of what it was supposed to be, which MAY have caused the timing chain to jump. At this point, I'm going to pull the valve cover to try to determine if my timing chain jumped or not. I'll check the compress on the cylinders to determine if I damaged any valves ... the Jetta doesn't drive like there is a valve problem. I also got a set of seals for the vacuum pump to reseal that. New gasket for the valve cover also. One thing I haven't pursued much is to verify that I don't have any vacuum line leaks.

I'm truly hoping that I don't have to go down the path of replacing the timing chain ...

 

[Skimmer0220]

2.5?


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[Steelart99]

2.5?
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yup, 2007 Jetta 2.5L (BCG)

 

[Skimmer0220]

The vacuum pump on the 2.5s are notorious for leaking there, waiting to hear about your timing chain findings


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[Steelart99]

I'm having trouble locating a method for setting cylinder #1 to TDC to check if the timing chain has jumped. Can anyone describe what to do or point me to post that does that?

Also, can it be verified that I set Cylinder #1 or #5 to TDC to do this check ... I've seen post of both.

Thanks

 

[Skimmer0220]

Did you use the notch on the crank pulley?


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[Steelart99]

Did you use the notch on the crank pulley?

Forgive my ignorance; I know there should be marks on the crank and cams that should align ... but I haven't found the pics that show that. I know I've seen it somewhere along the way, but have to search a bit more to find it.
My real issue was trying to find a step-by-step method for setting cylinder 5 to TDC.

So, my guess on setting cylinder 5 to TDC in order to evaluate if the timing chain might have jumped:
1. Remove valve cover
2. Remove all spark plugs to reduce force to turn engine
3. Use a ratchet to rotate the crankshaft (passenger side of engine) in a clockwise direction (only) until cylinder 5 is TDC on the compression cycle (I'm not sure how I know if it is on the compression cycle)
4. Check to see if marks on the crank and cam line up (I need to find the drawing showing where these marks are ... I've seen it somewhere)
5. If marks do not align, then timing chain jumped

 

[Steelart99]

*** Resolution ***

I thought I'd post a resolution to my issue. Sorry about the length.

Vehicle: VW Jetta 2.5L BCG, 2007 with 185,000 miles

Issue:
1. Driving back from the CO Mountains and the Jetta was running fine
2. Made a brief stop (10 minutes) and then restarted engine
3. Engine light came on and I noticed some misfires at lower rpm
4. Drove an additional 50 miles at speeds up to 80 mph and barely noticed misfiring
5. Next day I checked engine trouble codes and found:
----a. P0016: Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation
----b. P0300: Random Misfire Detected,
----c. P0301 thru P0305: Cylinders 1-5 Misfire detected
6. Starting the engine was becoming more difficult

Repairs and Testing (note: fault codes are cleared before each retest)
1. Replaced the crankshaft sensor; no change in fault codes
2. Noticed that oil level was very low although the oil level idiot light had never come on
3. Drained oil and measured only about half (3 Liters) of the amount required
4. Replaced oil filter and added 6.5 Liters of oil
5. Replaced the camshaft sensor; no change in fault codes
6. Noticed that there was some oil just below the vacuum pump
7. I think I may have had a cascading failure. I believe my vacuum pump was leaking oil (oil 'mess' on top of tranny), then my oil level idiot light did not come on, then my oil level dropped to half of what it was supposed to be, which MAY have caused the timing chain to jump
8. Purchased a set of vacuum pump seals and rebuilt/reinstalled the vacuum pump. I did not anticipate that this would change any fault codes; it was a repair of the failure source.
9. Per the suggestion of Humble Mechanic I pulled and cleaned the N205 sensor
10. I noticed that oil level was too high. Drained oil until level was correct per dipstick
11. I wanted to verify that I had a timing chain issue before attempting that repair
12. Removed the ignition wiring and coils
13. Removed the spark plugs and noted that they were both dirty and had white deposits (overheating?)
14. Checked compress on each cylinder to verify that I had not damaged any valves. All cylinders were at about 135-140 psi, so there did not appear to be any valve damage
15. Removed the valve cover
16. Rotated engine (clockwise only) to bring the #5 cylinder to exactly Top Dead Center
17. Timing Chain check per Humble Mechanic: To determine if the timing chain was stretched or had jumped a tooth, I used some precision ground steel and a micrometer to check the flats on the camshafts to determine if they were or were not exactly level with each other. To my surprise, they seemed to be exactly parallel or if they were off, it was by less than 0.75 degree. This would seem to indicate that I did not have a timing chain issue
18. Reinstalled valve cover with new gasket
19. Installed new spark plugs
20. Reinstalled coils and ignition wiring
21. Reassembled engine cover and air intake ducting
22. Cleared fault codes and started engine. NO FAULT CODES DETECTED
23. Drove at moderate speed for about 5 miles. No issues starting engine, no misfires and no new fault codes
24. I’ll do some longer, higher speed trips to determine if the ‘fix’ is permanent
25. I’m not sure what finally corrected the issue but suspect it might have been changing the oil and replacing the trashed spark plugs or possibly cleaning the N205 sensor

 

[tiga31328]

I just had this exact same issue three months ago, it was the Crankshaft Position Sensor, had it, and one other sensor that's right by it replaced and it fixed the issue.

Patrick

 

[Steelart99]

I just had this exact same issue three months ago, it was the Crankshaft Position Sensor, had it, and one other sensor that's right by it replaced and it fixed the issue.

Patrick

That is excellent. The sensor near it might be the N205 sensor. Is it near the PVC valve? Nice to hear that replacing the timing chain is NOT always the final solution.

 

[ddaileyh]

Yes I am new to this site. I'm not new to this problem. Your explanation at the beginning of this thread is or was spot on with my Jetta 2005.5 2.5L. At 57,600 mi. exact same issue. I replaced the upper timing chain and gears, tensioner and guides. It also had a small vacuum pump oil leak which I repaired at the same time. Bought the timing tools from a popular website that sells everything, which included the pin to set the TDC. You need these. The hash mark on the front pulley is not accurate for this. Essentially the car was out of time and had not jumped a tooth. The timing chain was noticeably stretched along with chain guide wear. The tensioner was sticking way out. After replacement and for 10,000 mi later it is trouble free. Hope this helps. Watch "the humble mechanics" latest Podcast. He explains it well.

 

[Bogdan Sokol]

* Resolution *

I thought I'd post a resolution to my issue. Sorry about the length.

Vehicle: VW Jetta 2.5L BCG, 2007 with 185,000 miles

Issue:
1. Driving back from the CO Mountains and the Jetta was running fine
2. Made a brief stop (10 minutes) and then restarted engine
3. Engine light came on and I noticed some misfires at lower rpm
4. Drove an additional 50 miles at speeds up to 80 mph and barely noticed misfiring
5. Next day I checked engine trouble codes and found:
----a. P0016: Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation
----b. P0300: Random Misfire Detected,
----c. P0301 thru P0305: Cylinders 1-5 Misfire detected
6. Starting the engine was becoming more difficult

Repairs and Testing (note: fault codes are cleared before each retest)
1. Replaced the crankshaft sensor; no change in fault codes
2. Noticed that oil level was very low although the oil level idiot light had never come on
3. Drained oil and measured only about half (3 Liters) of the amount required
4. Replaced oil filter and added 6.5 Liters of oil
5. Replaced the camshaft sensor; no change in fault codes
6. Noticed that there was some oil just below the vacuum pump
7. I think I may have had a cascading failure. I believe my vacuum pump was leaking oil (oil 'mess' on top of tranny), then my oil level idiot light did not come on, then my oil level dropped to half of what it was supposed to be, which MAY have caused the timing chain to jump
8. Purchased a set of vacuum pump seals and rebuilt/reinstalled the vacuum pump. I did not anticipate that this would change any fault codes; it was a repair of the failure source.
9. Per the suggestion of Humble Mechanic I pulled and cleaned the N205 sensor
10. I noticed that oil level was too high. Drained oil until level was correct per dipstick
11. I wanted to verify that I had a timing chain issue before attempting that repair
12. Removed the ignition wiring and coils
13. Removed the spark plugs and noted that they were both dirty and had white deposits (overheating?)
14. Checked compress on each cylinder to verify that I had not damaged any valves. All cylinders were at about 135-140 psi, so there did not appear to be any valve damage
15. Removed the valve cover
16. Rotated engine (clockwise only) to bring the #5 cylinder to exactly Top Dead Center
17. Timing Chain check per Humble Mechanic: To determine if the timing chain was stretched or had jumped a tooth, I used some precision ground steel and a micrometer to check the flats on the camshafts to determine if they were or were not exactly level with each other. To my surprise, they seemed to be exactly parallel or if they were off, it was by less than 0.75 degree. This would seem to indicate that I did not have a timing chain issue
18. Reinstalled valve cover with new gasket
19. Installed new spark plugs
20. Reinstalled coils and ignition wiring
21. Reassembled engine cover and air intake ducting
22. Cleared fault codes and started engine. NO FAULT CODES DETECTED
23. Drove at moderate speed for about 5 miles. No issues starting engine, no misfires and no new fault codes
24. I’ll do some longer, higher speed trips to determine if the ‘fix’ is permanent
25. I’m not sure what finally corrected the issue but suspect it might have been changing the oil and replacing the trashed spark plugs or possibly cleaning the N205 sensor

Hi, I need help. I have a 2009 2.5L Jetta with 121k miles and I got the P0016 code. I’m using the car daily because it drives fine above 1.3k rpm so i guess it doesn’t damage the engine that much. But it has a difficulty to start, ‘stuttering’ and when I cold start it, the rmps go up and down many times. The check engine light is always on and when i erase it it doesn’t reappear until a shut down the car and start it again (so it doesn’t light up why driving). So I suppose the problem is at the starting. Me and my friend we cleaned up the VVT solenoid (N205) with MAF cleaner and we tested it by passing current through it. we saw valves open and close so we suppose that it should be working. How can I verify if my sensors aka cam/crank shaft without having to replace it. (I’m on budget lol) And what can you suggest me to verify next? (I also heard that it can be a problem with the camshaft phaser)

 

[tiga31328]

may change the cam shaft sensor too, before starting to pursue a timing chain replacement.

I would replace it too, it’s recommended to replace both of one, or the other fails, because of their placement on the engine and being a pain to replace.

Aftermarket VW replacement parts for these sensors has been rough. My car has had them replaced twice in about 3 years time, first set lasted about 8 years, second set about 2 years.

 

[Bogdan Sokol]

So basically the first step is to change cam and crank position sensors? But is there a way to test them before to see if they work properly?